0:00:01 – Announcer

You are listening to the National University Podcast.

0:00:10 – Kimberly King

Hello, I’m Kimberly King. Welcome to the National University Podcast, where we offer a holistic approach to student support, well-being and success- the whole human education. We put passion into practice by offering accessible, achievable higher education to lifelong learners. Today we are talking about creating a fulfilling career and on the premier job site, Indeed.com, recently they published an article about finding a fulfilling career, and here’s what it said: “Being able to combine your passions and your strengths can benefit your career greatly in terms of fulfillment. Feeling fulfilled with your career can lead to overall satisfaction and happiness from your job.” Today’s guest has some great tips to creating that fulfilling career.

On today’s episode we’re talking about how to find a fulfilling career, and joining us is National University’s Dr. Michelle Browning, and she earned her BS in education from Auburn University in Auburn, Alabama, her MBA from Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas, and an MA in family therapy from Phillips Graduate Institute in California. Her PhD in policy and planning from the University of Southern California. That makes you well rounded and all over the nation here. With 20 years at National University, Michelle has served as an organizational leadership program director, associate dean of students, full professor and dissertation chair for NU’s EDD in organizational innovation program, and we welcome you to the podcast, Dr. Browning. How are you?

0:01:49 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Thank you, Kim. I’m well. Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

0:01:53 – Kimberly King

Wow, what a fantastic background. And, of course, today we’re talking about creating a fulfilling career. But before we get to that, I wanted you to fill our audience a little bit on your mission and your work.

0:02:06 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Okay, wonderful. Well, you know, my life mission, I would say, really is to be able to support the life mission of others, to help individuals realize and articulate their life mission. So much of it is about first discovering who we are in order to move closer toward that. So my mission in higher education for, oh my goodness, over 45 years, has been really to help others educationally, professionally and personally, and I enjoy doing that at National University.

0:02:39 – Kimberly King

Oh wonderful, I love your passion. You can hear that coming through. Let’s talk about creating a fulfilling career, and that’s so important these days, and so tell us about your background educational, personal and professional about why we’re talking, about what we’re talking about today.

0:02:57 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Okay, yeah, well, you know I really appreciate that question and I think I’ll start with the personal, because that so much is a part of who I am and that has continues to move me closer toward the professional piece. My husband and I recently celebrated our 44th wedding anniversary. We have been happily married for 44 years. We have four children and two grandchildren. Our children are also really dedicated to education. It’s interesting, you know, we never made them do anything, but they all kind of have moved toward that to. Children graduated from UCLA, one from Cal State and our younger son is going into his second year at UC Berkeley and majoring in architecture. One son is an attorney, the other is a social worker, daughters in executive management, and so our children have been a wonderful part of our life.

My husband and I actually met in the high school band. We are musicians Now, so that’s education from Auburn University is music education, so we’re musicians. He has been a wonderful support and foundation for my life and I’ll speak about that in a little bit. I think that having a good family support system is really essential to finding and maintaining your fulfilling career. My just a little bit about my background military background as well. My dad was a colonel in the Air Force and my oldest brother was an army pilot. I have nieces and nephews that are currently serving. So I’m very much wedded to and respect and admire and appreciate our men and women and their families of the military, and so that’s been a big part of my life as well. My mother was a music professor at Tuskegee Institute and in Tuskegee Institute, the historically black college in the south in Tuskegee, Alabama. So just really a lifelong kind of family of educators and music and really embracing family and all that family brings to, I think, every individual.

0:05:11 – Kimberly King

Wow, I love that. And happy anniversary. I don’t know when your anniversary was, but 44 years. Thank you, yep. June 9th, that’s a book waiting for you. Thank you, oh, that’s amazing. Well, I love that you bring family into it, because, it’s true, you do need to have your support, from the one you married to and then the one you’re raising, the ones you’re raising as well. So that’s awesome. So this kind of acts, you know? To the next question who in your life has impacted your career and your professional journey?

0:05:41 – Doctor Michelle Browning

You know, I would have to say that the person that jumps out first for me would be my mother. As I mentioned, she was a- she’s passed on- but she was a professor of music for, as I mentioned, Tuskegee Institute. She was a, you know, a magnificent musician, educator, teacher, mother, grandmother, wife, devoted spouse to my father, who served in the military and traveled the world. And I was the youngest of five children. So I would say my mother, as well as the remaining family unit, youngest of five children, and then, and then currently leaning back to my husband, really been the Rocking Foundation, really encouraging everything that I do and providing the wealth of support, as well as children, not only in general, but my mother, really that, that legacy of, of as an educator.

0:06:40 – Kimberly King

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I feel the same about my mom too, so that’s so important. And to you, what is the definition of fulfillment?

0:06:50 – Doctor Michelle Browning

You know I love that question. You know when, when I really kind of think about the word fulfillment, you know it, it means something different for everyone. But when you think about fulfillment and I think about it, I think it would be the things that bring you satisfaction, joy, energy, excitement, yearning to really want to, to, to move toward that. For me, fulfillment means helping others. So, when I, when I’m in a position where I’m helping others and it and it could be, you know quite honestly that that happens on a daily basis, you know, and whether it’s children, our own children, whether it’s someone at the grocery store who needs to have that water lifted from the bottom shelf and I need to have that happen for me as well but I sometimes try to help others or what happens really, what’s happening in my daily life now at National is helping others. From an educational standpoint, it’s really being in the classroom. Fulfillment really is doing something that you enjoy doing, and I think a lot of that is wrapped up in helping others.

0:08:08 – Kimberly King

I love that and, boy, you know, isn’t that the best advice and when you’re going through a hard time is really look to others and help them. You know, not just when you’re going through a hard time, but it really does lift you, and I know we teach that to our kids and granted.

0:08:24 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Yes, absolutely it lifts you. I love the way you said it. It lifts you. Very true.

0:08:30 – Kimberly King

So how is a job different from a career?

0:08:33 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Well, you know, that’s really a good one.

The jobs that we do many of us still do, you know those kinds of things that are jobs or things that might be a task or something that needs to be completed, that certainly could lead to a career.

I think that we all have had jobs in the past where we’ve done things that we might be thinking off. You know, this is not really what I want to do for the rest of my life, but it may leave me toward that Whereas a career, what I think about when I think about a career, particularly students come to mind is hopefully are able to draw from our experience and our training and our passion something that might lead to our lifelong work and our lifelong journey. Whereas you think about a job would be a chore or an assignment or something that may be short term and might often be associated with pay, whereas a career, on the other hand, does not necessarily have to be associated with pay, particularly when we are looking at volunteer work that many of us do, so something that would be absolutely yeah, and you know my brother is his lifelong rotary member and that really has defined him for service and giving back and I just I really look up to him for that.

Yes, absolutely, and you know, when you think about the career, many of the most fulfilling careers that individuals have and speak about are volunteer related. But from an educational standpoint, hopefully our careers will be one that draw from our education and our training and our experience.

0:10:26 – Kimberly King

Yeah, yeah good, I love that and it’s a good balance. You know, I think if you’re really speaking to your passion, you’re fulfilled and then you can take that into your job or your career.

0:10:38 – Doctor Michelle Browning

You know that being say. One other thing not to belittle the importance of the jobs that we all have done, that we all do there are very important and individuals may consider themselves as working in a job and those are very important. Not to belittle that, because that may be the truth for that individual, so that those are important as well.

0:11:01 – Kimberly King

And that’s true, and it also helps make up our life experiences as well. So I yeah, that’s a good point. What is the role of service, then? We just kind of talked about that in the process of finding a fulfilling career.

0:11:15 – Doctor Michelle Browning

So important, so important. Service can take place in so many ways, certainly in our family unit, as we serve the members of our family, we serve members in the community. As we talked about the military and you know, hats off and big salute to men and women in the military as they serve our country and in the world. From an organizational standpoint and in my role, particularly educationally, services pivotal service in many organizations may be a required component, but when we serve to really help others in, our intention is really to help others and make a difference that can leave, lead to many wonderful things.

Having the opportunity to serve from a professorial standpoint at National University, service is important at the committee level, at the school level, at the organizational level and within the community. Certainly, overall, the way in which we serve students is the foundation of our work, but it’s it can actually get your foot in the door. So individuals may want to know how do I get my foot in the door to this successful career? Serve and volunteer, go in there and offer to make a difference and be a mentor, be shadow others, volunteer your work, your time, your expertise so that you can make a difference within that organization, which can then perhaps lead to some opportunities and some connections that might not otherwise take place where you’re not serving.

0:12:56 – Kimberly King

I love that. I think that should be the headline, right. So good job. Yeah, absolutely so. How might self-leadership impact career success?

0:13:08 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Yeah, absolutely. You know, leadership is one of the areas that, from an educational standpoint having been academic program director in the organizational leadership program and now I’m in the School of Education in their educational administration and educational leadership department leadership really is the process of influence. But what I think others often miss is that we are leaders in our own life. Many times, I’ll ask individuals you know who all is a leader in the group. You know, and not very many people raise their hand. We are all leaders. Leadership is not just a position, it is the process of influencing others, hopefully toward positive change. So self-leadership is pivotal, particularly when individuals are desiring to find and maintain a fulfilling career. We have to explore our own passions in being leaders in our own life, being able to find that passion and realize that and to make a difference positively in our own lives so that we can be in a place to do that for others.

0:14:16 – Kimberly King

Right, almost like actions speak louder than words. Right, it’s what I’m doing and yeah, that’s great. So let’s talk a little bit about challenges, and what challenges have you overcome?

0:14:31 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Yeah, you know, the challenges are, I think, in our daily lives, present themselves sometimes in little ways or larger ways, not maybe just one or two, but you may have challenges along the way and to really pick yourself up and move forward. I think one of the greatest challenges that I can think about would be a challenge related to career really seeking to have job opportunities. You know, you graduate with your undergraduate degree and then you have maybe go on to additional education, as I did in applying for jobs, putting your name in the hat, moving forward and perhaps not getting the interview that you thought you were gonna get, but continuing on. I think that it is so important for individuals to you know, I don’t wanna say not to get discouraged, but if you get discouraged, don’t stay there too long, keep going. And so for me, having applied for jobs, this was long before National University, 40 years ago, perhaps thinking you know this would have been the job before in you, but really being able to push forward and keep applying.

Another challenge that is related to kind of our theme of S-JEDI, the social justice, equity, diversity and inclusion is having perhaps experienced instances of maybe prejudice or racism, particularly with I see that in maybe the men in my life and really having to watch that but to overcome it and I recently wrote a publishing article on really overcoming those issues of social injustice and inequity and the way that I think we do that or overcome that, is to share and communicate and tell stories into help individuals understand. So those issues are a part, I think, of the life that we live, regardless of your race, ethnicity, gender, so forth, and to really push forward and try to communicate and overcome those as much as we can and not let that get you down.

0:16:46 – Kimberly King

I like that and you know it’s even that you just have taken it a step further by that. Just even the word overcoming, like how do we move forward? And again, communication and community is really that’s so key. What do you think about people in their 20s and 30s that are struggling to find a career and how can they get to where they wanna be?

0:17:06 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Yes, you know, find first of all, really seek to find your passion, explore your joys, your hobbies, the things you like and the things you don’t like. It’s important to know what we like. It’s also important to know the things we don’t like from the career standpoint and to talk about those. Volunteer, get mentorship, maybe do some shadowing, if you’re able to, in various organizations and then, you know, get to the pavement, get your job applications out there, but get that education and training that can help you to land that ideal job. So really just a wealth of things. And seek support from others, which, again, you started off talking about that family support and your kids and everything.

0:18:01 – Kimberly King

And so it is really building your own community and knowing that you know, yep, if you make a misstep or take the wrong turn, that wherever you go, you know, get back up on that horse again and know that you’re supported, absolutely, yep. So what opportunities have you seized? I can probably retell you because I read your intro and your background so impressive.

0:18:25 – Doctor Michelle Browning

You know, recently, and this is in the past year- as you mentioned, I had recently celebrated my 20 year anniversary with National University. But right at the point of our merger, from our wonderful Northcentral University merging with National University, we developed a new organizational structure where we had a new organization, where we had different positions, and one of them was Associate Dean of Students. So the Dean of the School of Business invited me to be Associate Dean of Students to help with the merger and I said absolutely I want to help and do what I can to help. As that process then unfolded, the opportunity that I seized was listening to my own voice and my desire to return to the classroom. The opportunity I seized was the one that I said you know what? I think that my place is in the classroom and not in administration.

It was one that came at a time that was ripe, and so I said you know, I’d like to be able to return to the classroom in the professorial role that I had been for 20 years, and reached out to the School of Education and Dean Robert Lee said yes, there is an opening and that’s where I am now, in the School of Education. So that is just two months in. After 20 years in the School of Business. I now am in the School of Education, and so it was a career change in the middle of my current organization, and I think that’s what’s interesting about career change you don’t necessarily have to leave the organization to have and find the fulfilling career. Sometimes what is for you and what is there is right there in your own backyard. So I encourage individuals to think about the opportunities that are present within their own organizations in fulfill areas where there is a need. So I recently seized that opportunity and that’s where I am now School of Education.

0:20:35 – Kimberly King

Congratulations, and I love that you said that out loud. You know that it is sometimes we don’t know that it’s right in front of us and it’s just a little bit of a shift and you know, and I can see that you’re passionate about teaching and mentoring and so it sounds like you’ve landed successfully. I love that.

0:20:53 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Yes, yes, I believe so.

0:20:56 – Kimberly King

Well, we, this is great information, by the way. We just need to take a quick break, but more in just a moment. Don’t go away, we’ll be right back. And now back to our interview with National University’s Dr. Michelle Browning. And this is so interesting and I love your passion. We’re really discussing how to find a fulfilling career and so, Dr., how important is education in the overall journey of career success?

0:21:23 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Thank you, Kim, for that question, such an important question. Education is something that is, you know. We probably have all heard the phrase lifelong journey of education. It is essential, I think, to pursue the education in an area where we have a passion and we have an interest. It’s many individuals say oh, you know, I’m going to go, I’m going to get this degree just because.

But if you were able to really focus and target in on specialized education in your area of interest, at the back of the Lord, at the master’s, at the doctorate level and at the post degree level, education is all around us.

So it could be certificates, it could be doing workshops, having training and development.

But as it relates to the career, find out what the organization needs. The organizational department might say you know, we really need to have individuals within this unit have additional training and team development, or in multiculturalism and diversity. Or we need someone who’s going to be well-versed in the new issues of technology, or what’s big now is artificial intelligence and really being able to have knowledge and training in the areas that are needed within that organizational unit. And so that you can make a difference, a positive difference, in the organization, seek to have the training in that area. But definitely education is important and I think it goes back to grade school, junior high, all the way through high school from a parental standpoint Really work with. I think it’s important for parents who have students coming up through the educational ranks to get into the courses, the AP classes, the, the specialized training areas that are going to make a difference for that particular student or child, to do what they find fulfilling and then find what the organization needs once you’re in the organization and continue getting training in that area.

0:23:28 – Kimberly King

That’s kind of a lot, but yeah, no, but that’s such a key point though. Really. I mean, you know, we know what I mean. Not everybody knows exactly what they want and what they’re drawn to, but I think they have surveys that you take when you’re in high school Just to kind of see where that’s gonna guide you along, and then hopefully you have a good career counselor you know educational counselor in there, but also knowing what that organization is looking for, that’s really a key element that people don’t really talk about. Great, so is it possible to have a successful career, family in personal life? And of course I’m asking you this because you could probably write a book or two about that balancing that.

0:24:07 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Yes, it is possible. In fact, I have written a book on. That’s called, but we could talk about that later but there it is definitely possible to have a fulfilling career, personal life and Educational life. I think the thing that comes to mind is balance. Balance is the thing that comes to mind. So many of you will think oh, you know, I’m going to school, gee was, I’m gonna have to put my personal life on hold or I’m not gonna be able to have children or raise family or be with the significant other the way I thought I would, because I’m going to school. You can do it, definitely with the balancing education, work in family and I think the way to do it at least for me, again leaning on the support of others in family.

Another key thing is you don’t have to have 100% of everything all at once. So for, for example, during the time that I was, you know, getting married and raising a family, I cut back and I went to did my MBA program on a part-time basis. So I did that part-time and then I focused on marriage and family, and then I wanted to take a break. I knew I wanted to pursue my doctorate, but I needed to have a break and I did that and able to really focus on my career and then at that time was ripe for me then went on back to school to pursue my doctorate. So balance is important and you can definitely do all of it. It doesn’t have to be done all at the same time, because some things can be done part-time While other things can be done part-time in in having those breaks in between. So it’s not an all or nothing, nothing thing and getting the support and leaning in on the support of family, friends and co-workers.

0:25:57 – Kimberly King

And good, good advice. It’s true, and I think there’s not really a right or wrong road map, right, and I think these days, with being online, anything’s possible and you don’t have to be of a certain age. I don’t, you know, I just read somewhere that woman in her late 90s got a degree and I was like you go girl, that’s awesome. You know she was so-

0:26:21 – Doctor Michelle Browning

You know, I was just at the National University commencement at Petco Park just a couple months ago and we had Individuals in their 80s marching across the stage. I’m graduating.

0:26:33 – Kimberly King

Oh.

0:26:34 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Definitely there’s so many variations, and you mentioned, Kim, about the online opportunities have created a wealth of possibilities for students now who are desiring to maintain a career and a family in school, so the online possibilities are there for everyone as well.

0:26:56 – Kimberly King

And I was gonna say I think National was one of the first ones to start that, even well before the pandemic, when everybody was kind of Switching right. Am I right about that? Yes, we were trailblazers.

0:27:06 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Even when I came on to National University 20 years ago, we were already starting the hybrid course option some online some on site.

0:27:14 – Kimberly King

Yes, great Wow, talk about ready for when it, when, everything happened, huh.

0:27:21 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Yes, what did I do?

0:27:22 – Kimberly King

Yes, what advice can you give to others seeking to find and create a fulfilling career? I?

0:27:31 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Think, find your passion, find what your interests are, extents, and spend some time Exploring yourself. What do you like, as I mentioned, what are your likes, what are your dislikes, and then, if you have the opportunity, to shadow other individuals who are in careers that are Really similar to the ones that you’re interested in, seeking out mentors To really work with you and help you and, and perhaps, as we mentioned earlier, doing some volunteer work and some service in those areas, to get in the door and to have an opportunity to find out what it’s like first-hand experience. Definitely, in getting seeking out the education and training to really Fulfill, to really prepare yourself for what could be then a very fulfilling career.

0:28:32 – Kimberly King

I love it. And so how might personal core values, mission and vision impact an impact in individuals career success?

0:28:42 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Yeah, now that’s a really essential one. Many times I’ll get students that will ask me what should I do? I’m going for a job interview. What are the things that I should and shouldn’t do?

You know most every organization has a website or information or brochures or literature about their core values, those things that are important to that organization, their mission, what is the purpose of that organization and their vision, what are their long term goals.

Seek to find that out in the organizations where you’re interested, where you have an interest, and then explore your own personal core values. What’s important to me, you know that could be balance, family service and so forth, quality relationships. Seek out what is important to you. What is your core values, your own mission helping others, for example for me. And then if you’re able to find an organization that has where you have congruency, their core values and your core values are similar. Their mission, mission of national university, for example, educating others that’s very much my mission Then you have the more likelihood that you will have congruence in that organization and longevity. And it’s also helpful on your cover letter for applying for jobs to really be able to speak to that. It’s helpful in the interviews and they’ll say you know they might ask why should I hire you? Speak to that the core values, mission and vision and hopefully the overlap of your own personal core values and mission to that of the organization.

0:30:17 – Kimberly King

That’s a great homework assignment, which is what you’re talking about putting your own personal core values together, because, it’s true, people may not think about it that way, but that’s a really great. You know to see how they align.

0:30:30 – Doctor Michelle Browning

That’s going to be fun.

0:30:32 – Kimberly King

How has we talked about this a little bit, the pandemic, how it’s affected your career success and the success of others. We talked about it from national universities being ahead of the game, but what about for you and the success of others?

0:30:45 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Yes, you know, at first when the pandemic hit, we were all, I think, maybe confused and wondering you know, what will this be for us all, individually and organizationally, and there was a loss of the connectivity to others in the face-to-face short term. But it didn’t take long to realize that we had a wonderful opportunity before us to really connect in new ways that we had never connected before. Although I spend quite a bit of time on Zoom, I’ve been able to meet with and talk to and communicate and collaborate with team members and colleagues in ways and students that I had never done in the past. So the pandemic has opened a lot of doors for us administratively, organizationally and, I think, for our students as well. So we have a new day before us. But it was. We had a little down at first and it didn’t take long for us to see the shining light that we have before us.

0:31:54 – Kimberly King

That’s great, I know. I think in this we’re in the technological digital age, right, and it’s always changing, isn’t it? But well, that’s really kind of how you not where you start, it’s where you end, right, or where you finish. Yes, what research in the area of love and gratitude? Apparently that’s where you have research. So I wanted to ask you about that. And why is love and gratitude important?

0:32:21 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Yes, thank you. You know, having an attitude of gratitude has been my life foundation. I kind of go back to my mother, as I mentioned at the beginning of the interview, a very, very thankful and appreciative woman, and she taught us all, as siblings, to be to be thankful for everything that we have.

I have recently done some research in the area of love and gratitude in the area of students how we can serve our students. Very much like servant leadership, but it goes a little bit deeper. It’s not the romantic love that we think of when we think about love, but it is a love that is based on kindness and empathy and caring and genuine care for others, and that is the foundation and that theory, if you will, in applying it to work and student services and the work in the classroom that we do. It seems it’s not complicated. It’s just basically taking the foundation of caring and love and applying it to the work that we do with students and looking at the various theories of student services and connecting them into the content of the process of love, care, empathy and service to others.

0:33:50 – Kimberly King

I love that. That’s something that we cannot learn too young. Like that’s just how we should be living our lives, right and to keep that going on when students reach college level. I think you know there could be a drop off, but then there are professors like you, so that’s great.

0:34:08 – Doctor Michelle Browning

And you know what Kim? One other thing about the peace on love. It kind of goes back to the self-leadership Linking those two pieces together. One of the most important components of love is loving ourselves. And I think we all can do a better job of that, so that we can be more present for others.

0:34:27 – Kimberly King

I love that too, and so relevant in today’s… You know, whatever we’re going through in the world today, but we need to know that we do need to love ourselves, and we need to otherwise moving forward and adding anybody else into our lives, wow Well, is there anything else you’d like to add? I think this has been just a great conversation today, and I can just really feel your passion. Thank you.

0:34:52 – Doctor Michelle Browning

Well, again, I appreciate the opportunity to share and I am very thankful for having had this opportunity to speak on the importance of finding and maintaining your ideal and fulfilling career. Explore yourself, find your passion, move toward that and do things that bring you joy. That would be my last word there.

0:35:19 – Kimberly King

Thank you so much. What a great advice to end on today. This has been really great doctor. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, and if you want more information, you can visit National University’s website at NU.edu. Thank you so much for your time today.

0:35:35 – Doctor Michelle Browning

My pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thank you very much.

0:35:40 – Kimberly King

You’ve been listening to the National University podcast. For updates on future or past guests, visit us at NU.edu. You can also follow us on social media. Thanks for listening.