Announcer: You are listening to the National University Podcast.

0:00:10 – Kimberly King

Hello, I’m Kimberly King. Welcome to the National University Podcast, where we offer a holistic approach to student support, well-being and success – the whole human education. We put passion into practice by offering accessible, achievable higher education to lifelong learners. Today, we’re discussing how we define student success. Things have changed a mite, especially after COVID and this pandemic, but, according to PubMed Central, what is success? Well, in order to study and facilitate student success, we must first understand what we mean when we say “success”. Student success can be seen in terms of outcomes like persistence, increase in self-efficacy and publication rate. However, these concepts can just as easily be seen as components that facilitate success if it is defined as achieving a particular goal.

A very interesting conversation and relevant coming up in today’s episode. On today’s episode, we’re discussing how to be a successful online educator, and joining us is National University’s Sanford College of Education Associate Director, Dr. Linda Bloomberg, and in this capacity, she coaches and evaluates online faculty, develops curriculum for graduate research courses and serves as a dissertation chair and subject matter expert for online doctoral candidates. And Dr. Bloomberg also serves in an advisory and leadership capacity for the university’s community engagement platform and was a founding member of the university’s diversity committee and inclusive excellence council. She’s a founder of Bloomberg Associates, the Institute for Learning, Innovations and Adult Development and Advanced Learning Solutions, and a co-founder of Columbia University’s Global Learning and Leadership Institute, and we welcome Dr. Bloomberg to this podcast. How are you doing?

0:02:08 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

Thank you so much, Kim, I’m doing great, and thanks so much for having me here today again.

0:02:13 – Kimberly King

Absolutely. It’s great to have you back. Why don’t you fill our audience in a little bit on how being a successful online educator is, and I guess let’s- first of all, talk about your mission and your work before we get to today’s show topic.

0:02:28 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

Okay, sure I came to my work in a pretty unusual way, I think. My earlier education was in psychology. I was a counseling and industrial psychologist in a previous life and I then transitioned sometime later to adult education after doing my doctorate at Columbia University in adult learning and leadership, where I really became interested in transformative learning theory.

In fact, Jack Mezirow, the founder of that theory, he founded the doctoral program that I did and he taught us, so it was actually incredible to learn with him. But yeah, I’ve transitioned into adult education and then about 10 years ago, started working with what was then Northcentral University, which is now merged with National University, and so for almost 11 years now, I’ve been working with adult students in a teaching capacity as a professor, and it’s just been the most rewarding part of my career to date. Working with adults, working on their research, working with them on their really important research, which I’m sure we’ll get to talk to in a little bit more further on- But working as a dissertation advisor with students who are doing really important social and cultural studies that are going to make a difference in today’s world is extremely gratifying to me. So I’m thrilled to be in this position and I actually love what I do every single day.

0:03:54 – Kimberly King

Well, isn’t that what it’s all about? Right? You are living your passion and working and probably getting paid for that, but it doesn’t feel like it right, because it’s what you love to do. That is a blessing. Today, we’re talking about how to be a successful online educator, and so, Dr. Bloomberg, with all of your experience, let’s talk a little bit about, for over the decade, you coached faculty to teach online and you also currently teach in an online graduate programs. You’ve also written a book and multiple journal articles about online learning. Can we talk about your award-winning book Designing and Delivering Effective Online Learning: How to Engage Adult Learners?

0:04:34 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

Sure, this book was actually published in 2021, and I had started writing it prior to the pandemic because I was working in the field of online learning, because National University is a fully online, or mostly fully online, University, and Northcentral was at the time as well, and the book was actually not very well received by some publishers because online learning at that point, prior to 2020, was really not mainstream at all, as you know. And then, with the pandemic, things changed. So the book was published by Teachers College Press in 2021, and has really done well and won a couple of awards, I think, the reason being that it really gets to the heart of what online learning is all about, not even only online education, but how do adults learn online, what is the difference between learning online and learning face to face, and what do adults need specifically, as opposed to children, for instance? So I’m really passionate about this area. So, yeah, that’s really pretty much what the book is about. The book is really focused on engaging and empowering our adult online learners.

0:05:41 – Kimberly King

Well, congratulations on the book I can’t wait to- You know it’s funny, I’m thinking about as you’re talking about- This was written before the pandemic and everybody really learned to jump on board. But yeah, National University has been online for quite some time. I think you’ve been a pioneer in this space. So who are today’s learners in online graduate programs, and has this demographic shifted over the last few years because of the pandemic?

0:06:07 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

Yes, it actually has, and there’s been a lot of research done on it. Our learners today are primarily non-traditional learners, meaning that there are not so much the kids that are coming out of high school, but there’s a huge emphasis on adult education. Many people have gone back to learning because online learning really offers that flexibility and the convenience. So most of our students that we are working with in our context at National University are adult learners, meaning that they may have been out of school for some time, they may be returning to school, they may never have gone to school after high school and this is their first time back in graduate studies. So we’re seeing a huge shift in the demographics and that is why I think my book is so helpful, because the focus is really on adult learners.

How do adults learn? And there are different theories about how adults learn. So this is where it all comes together for me and the beauty of it, because it’s all like sort of the perfect storm. We’re working with adult learners and how do we help them be successful in this context where, as you know, graduate studies is stressful and adult learners have many commitments. They’ve got families, they’ve got jobs, careers, etc. And so coming back to learning is a huge commitment. And how are we going to meet their needs? How are we going to meet them where they are? That’s my concern, that’s my focus.

0:07:27 – Kimberly King

And you’re right. I mean, we’re balancing so much, but I think it’s interesting. I think I tried to take an online course way before the pandemic and in my mind I was trying to be the wife, the mom, the working, and it was just too much for me then. So I would love to find out what your strategies are.

0:07:46 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

I just want to mention one other thing, if I may. I mentioned the non-traditional learner, which are adults, but I also want to say that what is very prominent in our context and I would imagine in other online contexts as well is that we are seeing a lot of first generation students, and that’s really the most exciting part of everything for me. That these students, adults, are usually typically the first in their families to be getting a college degree. Some of their parents and their families have never even achieved a high school diploma, and here are these students in doctoral, master’s and doctoral programs. It’s incredible, I mean, and they are becoming role models in their communities, role models for their families, for their communities and for society at large. Like here I am, no one in my family ever went to college before and I’m going to be a doctor. That is remarkable.

0:08:39 – Kimberly King

Wow, wow, that’s really. I love that. This is a shift. You’re seeing this and um, and you know, I guess what you’re saying as well in this, in that statement, is that they’re starting off that way in balancing um, so that’s just natural for them, whereas, like somebody my age, I think it’s been more of a learned like you know, patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time.

0:09:02 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

Right, yeah some of us who were maybe more privileged to have gone to college after high school, you know, we had to start that and then studying as an adult. As you say, we’ve had to balance certain commitments in life. But these people, first generation students, are really taking a great step forward and they’re setting great examples of what is possible and it’s. I mean, I am really blown away every single day by the students that I work with who are first generation students and what they’re accomplishing. It’s just really wonderful.

0:09:33 – Kimberly King

That’s great, wow. Well, kudos to you and again for the book and just your expertise. When you start teaching a course, what are your strategies for onboarding engagement?

0:09:47 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

course, what are your strategies for onboarding engagement? So I write a lot about that in the book and I really do practice what I preach. I put into practice in my own work and a lot of my colleagues do as well, because, as you mentioned earlier, I’ve coached in the past, at any one point, over a hundred doctoral faculty to teach online on an ongoing basis. I’ve served as their coach on an ongoing basis. I’ve served as their coach, as their sort of advisor, as their mentor, and what is key to teaching online in terms of onboarding engagement is that whole idea of how do adults learn? So one has to go back to the theories of andragogy, transformative learning, where, for example, with andragogy, we have to meet adults where they are, because adults need to know that what they’re learning is beneficial to them. So we have to start off at that point of really trying to offer our students what they think that they need, because that’s really the only way that we’re going to engage them in this learning experience so that it can actually be meaningful to them.

Another important point about the onboarding engagement is that sense of presence, where us as instructors have to really convey to our learners that we are present for them. And presence is something that’s also been written about extensively in the online education literature, where there are many different kinds of presence. There’s teaching presence, social presence, emotional presence, where we really have to, as human beings, put ourselves out as being present for our students so that they can connect with us as real people. Especially, this goes back again to online learning, where it can be so sort of virtual and so disconnected because we all are not all in the same room. And finally, I just want to say that the idea of a learning community is extremely important to me, again, because online learning can be a very solitary endeavor, both for instructors and students.

I feel that it’s really important to create that sense of community, a learning community, and what I’ve done over the course of a number of years and something I find really rewarding, is putting my students together students that are not in a classroom together, but connecting them because they’re in the same program, and I’ve really experienced extreme rewards through doing this, where students have really like buddied up with someone that’s, you know, going through a similar experience to them and, because of that, not feeling so alone and feeling that they have support other than the support from their instructor.

And then, of course, there are a lot of little strategies about. I mean, any online instructor who does a good job would know that they need to stay in touch, be available, send welcome letters, respond to emails, all of those sort of technical well, we call them technical and simplistic, but they actually are very important. So there’s a lot that goes into onboarding and, yeah, I’ve worked a lot with faculty in this regard to help them be effective in those very early stages of the course so that students can really feel connected and not drop out.

0:12:47 – Kimberly King

Yeah, and you know it is. Sometimes it’s the little things like you mentioned, that welcome letter or just, you know, just communicating and really, um, and sometimes maybe that even has an advantage because it’s more one-on-one.

0:13:00 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

Uh, in that absolutely, and then also, for example, little things that well again, not so little, but maybe people would overlook them- the importance of explaining to students the value of feedback- feedback on assignments. It’s not meant to be punitive, it’s not meant to like be critical of the person, it’s a critique of the work. So if we can conceptualize for our students the value that they’re going to be getting if they really do address the feedback, and how it’s going to help them improve and succeed in future assignments, that is something that professors, that online instructors, also need to take into account.

Like you cannot sort of assume that your students know what to do with what you give them there really has to be explanation, and clear explanation about this is going to help you, and this is why it’s going to help you.

0:13:47 – Kimberly King

Right, that’s a good point and really I wanted to find out, since everyone learns in a different module, do you have to customize this match to match the different ways students learn?

0:14:00 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

Yes, absolutely. And students are- like any students of any age children, adults or whatever learn in different ways. Some are visual learners, some are more you know, learn better from reading. Some people learn better through experience. So when we can really try and hone in on who our students are and what they need- which goes back to what I said earlier- we then develop a clearer sense of what we really need to offer them, to try and help them stay engaged, because if we’re going to try and teach people in a way that doesn’t relate to them, we’re going to lose them.

0:14:31 – Kimberly King

Yeah, really good point. This is such great information Right now we need to take a quick break. We’ll have more in just a moment. Don’t go away. We will be right back. And now back to our interview with Dr. Linda Bloomberg, and we’re discussing how to be a successful online educator, and this is so interesting. I know, Dr. Bloomberg, you’ve written several books and journal articles, but you are a professional and an expert. What are your strategies for ongoing supportive engagement throughout all of your courses?

0:15:03 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

So, as I mentioned earlier, the strategies for onboarding engagement really remain the same going throughout the course. So your strategies and your engaging mannerism should never change or never stop, but you have to continue being present throughout a course. There’s no good in being present at the beginning and then sort of dropping off because that’s not going to help your learner at all. So that sense of presence, your availability, your access, your students’ access to you has to be ongoing throughout a course. And then, of course, there are different things that really also enhance engagement, being your transparency, your sense of trust, your flexibility. You know students have lives too and things happen, so you have to be open to switching direction if a student needs a certain accommodation, or they need extra time, or they just haven’t managed to produce good work and they want to resubmit.

I’m really big on helping students be successful. There’s no point in being the big bad wolf in the room. You know there’s a term in adult education that’s called facilitation, and that is really part of what an instructor’s role is. Not to teach like a sage on a stage where that terminology has been used in the past, but rather to be a facilitator of learning. Be open to learning with and alongside your students, and that really is where I come to my work from, from that vantage point, that I learn so much from my students they probably don’t realize it, but I really do, and probably that’s why I love what I do, because it’s a great learning experience for me too to learn about what students are studying, what they’re finding in their research, the way that they’re changing and developing as learners is extremely valuable to me and gratifying as I work alongside them.

So that sense of being available and flexible as a facilitator of learning is really key to ongoing supportive engagement. And then, of course, there are things like a growth academic mindset, which Carol Dweck writes a lot about. I also really try and impart that very much as an integral aspect of my teaching, where I really do believe that students can succeed if they’re given the tools and the attitude to succeed. If we make them feel that they’re going to be a failure or that they cannot cope with the work, then you’re kind of like already setting them up for failure. So giving them the tools and letting them know that they can yes, you can be successful and this is how you can be successful, is really the key to successful learning and a successful outcome. So really, again, it’s that ongoing support and motivation and that relationship that you build with your students is key in also keeping that sense of engagement going.

0:17:52 – Kimberly King

Well, I love that and I think you just said that you’re having so much fun learning from is key in also keeping that sense of engagement going. Well, I love that, and I think you just said that You’re having so much fun learning from your students and it shows, but it’s your engagement with them and just being interested in how they’re learning and what you’re teaching them when they ask those questions and, yes, you’re getting as much out of it. But I think back to some of my best professors or teachers and those are the ones that just really kept in touch and kept communicating and keep you on. You know and you do. You want that positive impact, yeah, so good for you. Can you discuss the issues of power and positionality in your writing and how can you explain what that is?

0:18:30 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

So, I first came to these concepts in my doctoral program when we studied with Professor Ron Cervero of the University of Georgia. He was a visiting professor at Columbia and he’d written a book on power and positionality in adult learning and I was really fascinated by these concepts, which I had really never come to hear about much before that. And going back to what I said a few minutes ago about the adult educator being a facilitator rather than what’s called a sage on the stage and just pouring knowledge into students’ heads, like you’re the god of teaching, he taught us about how power and positionality really play out in the dynamic of the relationship between a student and an instructor. And, if you think about it, an instructor has inherent power because you are the teacher, you’re the person grading the paper, you’re providing the feedback, you can fail a student, so you really have a lot of power. And that’s a very daunting idea for me as an educator, because realizing how we can impact students’ lives is a huge responsibility and again, I take that very seriously. I don’t take that lightly at all and that is something I worked with a lot of the faculty in my coaching role as well how we really have to acknowledge our power and positionality. Positionality is that term that means where we position ourselves or where we have been positioned in society according to our gender, our race, our ethnicity, our religion, our you know, any way that we identify ourselves can position ourselves different, can position us differently to where we are in relation to our students. So that sense of power and positionality is something that really has to be clearly understood and clearly addressed for the learning experience to be a successful and rewarding one for our students.

And something I do with my dissertation students was, in doing research, similarly to teaching, there’s that sense of power and positionality with a researcher, where the researcher is in a position of power to make decisions about who will be in my research study and what kind of methods will I use to obtain data and who will I include in my sample and who will I exclude, and how am I going to represent my research participants and which stories am I going to tell and which stories am I going to choose not to tell.

So all of those things, especially with qualitative research, put the researcher in that position of power and they also have a sense of positionality, obviously, same as an educator. And what I do with my dissertation students is, at the end of the study, offer them an opportunity to reflect on where they were as the researcher in terms of their power and positionality, and students really love that because it gives them that final opportunity to really connect with who they were as a researcher in their study and how their sense of power and positionality may have affected the people that they were studying, the people that were in their study. So, that’s power and positionality in a nutshell, but it’s really worth reading up more about if you’re interested in it, because it’s a fascinating area and a really important area to understand.

0:21:41 – Kimberly King

Well, and I think it goes across the board. You can use that, that- you know, the thought process, but what power and positionality is not in just in your studies, in your learning, but just in how you deal in life and kind of figuring out that order, it would seem. So yeah, I’m very interested in that. What in your mind, are the key strategies to empower adult learners? And I know you’ve been talking about this, you know you really do empower them, but what are some strategies that you use?

0:22:13 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

Again, in my book I’ve written extensively on this and there’s an entire chapter on power and positionality and also a chapter on what I call engagement indicators in terms of how the educator can actually check themselves to see whether they are actually engaging with their students and respecting them as individuals in terms of their own sense of position and positionality and power. So there are a number of different factors and strategies that one can employ to empower adult learners. One of them, one of the first ones, is to respect diversity. We have to acknowledge that in our student populations, in whatever context we’re teaching, there are a diverse range of individuals, diverse on so many different levels, and so at the outset, we have to acknowledge that not everybody learns the same, studies the same, wants the same outcome, has the same abilities, has the same skills, has the same mindset, et cetera. So, at the outset, again, going back to really understanding who our learners are and respecting that sense of diversity, that’s the first thing. Well, and none of these that I’m saying are in any order of importance. I might say first thing, but I don’t mean most important.

Another important aspect to take into consideration is that striving for inclusivity, we really have to try and include all of our learners and not keep anyone out or not prevent access to learning for any of our students. So that inclusivity is really important, and National University makes a huge effort in respecting diversity and inclusion. So these are two really important aspects to help our students be successful, not just at the beginning of their course, but right throughout their programs, right up until the end, that they do graduate and that they are successful and so that they can go out into the world and let others know what the learning experience was like for them, how it changed them, how it changed their lives, the lives of their families and even their communities. We really want this to be a hugely impactful and positive experience, so the diversity and inclusivity is critical.

Also, another aspect that I really do focus on again in a lot of my writing not just in this book, but I’ve written numerous articles on this is culturally responsive teaching, Because we’re teaching students from so many different walks of life and cultures and countries, especially in the online environment, where our students are scattered throughout the world, being culturally responsive is hugely important. We have to try and understand who our students are and where they’re coming from. Right now I have a number of students from Hispanic communities, from Native American communities, from different nations. I’m teaching students from the Osage Nation. It’s really important to try and understand what our students need from the learning experience. Obviously, we can never fully identify with every single culture of every student that we teach or that we work with, but really being open to learning and I really learn again, as I said earlier so much from our students that it is really a humbling experience for which I’m eternally grateful because I grow on a daily basis from from my students and I love that.

0:25:39 – Kimberly King

Yeah, that’s great. I’m sorry for interrupting-

0:25:42 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

Not at all. We can talk about this the whole day, because I can see we’re all interested in it and it’s really such important work that we’re all doing and that we’re all trying to learn about, because what is more important than learning? What is more important than education and growing and developing through learning, through education, and so, yeah, I think it’s something that everyone can take away from, right. Something else that I just want to talk about is that we have to also understand that not everybody has equal access to learning. So in the online environment, this could mean technical, that not everybody has equal access to learning. So in the online environment, this could mean technical access. It could mean access to books, it could mean access to students.

I mean, I have students that don’t even have their own computer. Some of them have to go to a library to do their homework. Now, if you think about that and you think about the barriers that some people are facing in terms of trying to be successful, again, we have to understand it, and we can only understand it if we listen to what our students are telling us and are really cognizant about trying to assist them and support them to be successful. So, if a student comes to me, for example, and says they couldn’t get to the library yesterday. I would naturally understand that and give extensions. Why not? Because, if not, we’re just holding up additional barriers in front of our students and that’s really not going to help them be successful.

0:27:03 – Kimberly King

You know what? I was just going to say, but that’s a position of positive- What did you call that?

0:27:11 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

Power and positionality?

0:27:12 – Kimberly King

Yes, position of positivity or positionality, because you see what the end game is. I don’t think some people see it that way. They want to play the you know that order of being in power Exactly, so I love that that you know. You really do see that you’re really empowering them to get to the finish line. I’m sorry.

0:27:33 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

I am cognizant about that in a lot of my methods and strategies in teaching. Really, my student success is my success and the university’s success. So National University is going to be successful based on the success of their students. And when you see the students gathering at graduation that graduation is happening soon, in a few week’s time, and you see thousands of students of all different programs and degrees walking across that finish line, as an educator and as all of us who have gone through education, who’ve had the benefit of a graduate degree, know what it takes to be successful and know the time and effort it takes to actually get to that finish line. I mean, it’s an exhilarating moment to be there and to watch your students finally stand there with their families looking on and getting that degree in their hand. I mean I could actually cry right now.

0:28:28 – Kimberly King

I can see, I can see some tears forming, but again, it’s your passion and you’re really equipping these students and helping them and, I love you’re exactly where you need to be. So that’s that again, a blessing, that.

0:28:45 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

and I’m actually not finished on that question, um, yeah, because, there are a few more things. The one is building a learning community, which is again an empowering um strategy for students. As I said earlier, the online learning environment can tend to be pretty isolating, with students just scattered around sitting in their own homes on their computers and doing their courses. But building that learning community and helping students understand that they’re part of something larger, I feel is extremely important in giving them that sense of empowerment to be successful. And then again, the general feeling about building a culture of trust and transparency comes back to each individual educator. How are you going to make your students feel that they can trust you? How are you going to be transparent and open so that they can trust you? And so so much goes into being that successful educator which is the title of today’s podcast. But I think we can all take a step back right now and just think about all these different things that go into it. It’s like a huge recipe with many, many ingredients that will make it that successful outcome.

0:29:49 – Kimberly King

Wow. Well, I love it, I love your passion, I love that you’ve written books about this and you’re really just helping all generations, not just the young generation coming up, the new and then just the cultural movement as well, and so we appreciate your knowledge, and if you want more information, you can visit National University’s website, that is nu.edu. And thanks again, Dr. Bloomberg. Thank you so much, Dr. Bloomberg, for your time today. We appreciate it?

0:30:17 – Doctor Linda Bloomberg

Of course no, thank you.

0:30:22 – Kimberly King

You’ve been listening to the National University Podcast. For updates on future or past guests, visit us at nu.edu. You can also follow us on social media. Thanks for listening.